Archbishop Benjamin Nzimbi of the Anglican Church of Kenya (ACK) told VOL that he did not totally rule out the possibility that the Africans will have their own Lambeth in 2008, because of the recent actions of the American Episcopal Church's General Convention in Columbus, Ohio and its failure to obey the demands of the Windsor Report.

"We are waiting to see, and when all the CAPA bishops meet in October in Kilgali, Rwanda, one of the things we want to look at is 'the road to Lambeth'. We will demand that we (the Global South bishops) be considered participating in the agenda of Lambeth 2008. We will also discuss challenges that we have in the world today including HIV/AIDS.

The archbishop also said that growing diocesan and parish split offs in the Episcopal Church, demand something more radical than coming under various Global South bishops, and that the orthodox in The Episcopal Church need to find a resolution to their own problems, suggesting, that a "body" was necessary quickly as a way to move forward.

VOL: The Episcopal Church General Convention has come and gone. From where you sit as a leader in the Global South, how do you see what happened there as significant for the future of the Anglican Communion?

NZIMBI: It makes me even more worried about the routes our brothers are taking. The Windsor Report asked the American church to regret, but that word is not in the Bible; it is repentance that should have been asked for - turning to God. This is what we expected to see... putting things in their right way. We wanted them to come out and openly say that intentional acts of marriage are between a man and a woman; teachings supported by Jesus. The convention decided to take its own route and not to abide by the Anglican Communion resolution 1:10 and repeated calls by the Primates. By going their own way they pose a danger of splitting the Anglican Communion.

VOL: How are you viewing the increasing splits by dioceses and parishes from the Episcopal Church?

NZIMBI: Let me say that we offered pastoral oversight to churches in America because they came to us. We did not go to them. My desire is always to help as many churches in America by giving them oversight as much as possible, but my recommendation is that a body is formed in America where these churches are, and we can strengthen this body to deal with their problems. We believe the Archbishop of Canterbury would approve this and be involved in this. This needs to be dealt with quickly and not be the problem of any one African province. We love our American brothers and sisters and we want to help them as much as we can. Finally I want to tell the Americans to be strong and of good courage, the Lord is going to bring them out of this situation faithful to the teachings of Christ.

VOL: The Episcopal Church has elected a revisionist woman Presiding Bishop to lead the church. How do you think that will go down with the other Primates, especially as many do not believe in women's ordination?

NZIMBI: We need to be sensitive to the feelings of the other primates, especially those who don't believe in women's ordination. At the same time I am convinced that the real issue is what does she believe in? For some of us it is about the consecration of women priests, but this particular concern is with her teaching. If she says people of the same sex can marry, we would worry about what that means for our future together.

VOL: What is your personal view of that especially as she does not hold to basic doctrines of the Christian faith and believes the primary focus of the church should be on more socially driven issues like the Millennium goals of the UN and not the gospel of Jesus Christ?

NZIMBIA: If that is the case we have different beliefs, we are not going to have a communion.

VOL: Are the attitudes of African Anglican Archbishops hardening towards the TEC?

NZIMBI: If somebody's heart is according to the truth of the bible that is the area we need to organize around in America. We should not be hard on the American church altogether because there are many people in America who share the same beliefs we have. It is the leadership that has the problems. We are concerned about the church in America, it should repent, and if the leadership repents I am sure the American Episcopal Church is going to have a revival.

VOL: You recently had a run in with Church of England Bishop John Gladwin and you politely told him to go home because he was compromised on sexuality issues, did he understand that his understanding of mission and your understanding of mission were really quite different?

NZIMBI: The British newspapers, The Observer and Guardian did not tell the truth about what happened. The Diocese of Chelmsford and former Diocese of Mt. Kenya East split into four dioceses. When Bishop Gladwin became Bishop of Chelmsford, the bishops here did not know him well and so he was invited by a partner diocese. When he arrived here we welcomed him and had lunch with his 20 curates. No one talked about sexuality issues, nobody was thinking about those kinds of beliefs. But a newspaper, The Nation said that Gladwin was a patron of an organization called Changing Attitudes which fights for the rights of gays. Bishop Gladwin was asked if he supported the gay position. He said he did not come here for such talks, but came here on a mission with his partner diocese. He did not say yes or no to our questions. He came for mission, he said. I wrote a press release and tried to get him on the phone but could not reach him. We then released it saying we were unable to continue with the lined up activities in various dioceses. We did not want the newspapers to call and ask us if our stand on homosexuality had changed. We believe homosexuality is wrong and marriage is between man and a woman. I made it clear that my stand had not changed. I told my bishops that Bishop Gladwin and his curates could still continue with their visit but to do so quietly, that they should be given food and accommodation and try to avoid taking a stand on the issue. But the Observer and the Guardian said that we were being nasty to Bishop Gladwin and that he had been abandoned him in the middle of Africa in a place called Embu infected by cholera and Malaria When I saw what the media had done I talked with bishop and said I was very unhappy with the newspaper accounts. Embu is not in jungle and is not infected by malaria and cholera. I made it clear that they were welcome unofficially but not officially.

VOL: A recent article in the ECONOMIST magazine about religion in Kenya said the ACK was the church of choice for Kenya's influential country-club set but it was losing out towards more revivalistic Pentecostal churches. How are you countering that image?

NZIMBI: This was something happening a few years ago, we were losing young people to Pentecostal churches; our young people were looking for services full of life and where there needs are met. We had to train a new leadership to reach them. Since then we have discovered our short comings and put more stress on the youth of the church, we have come up with slots in the services that are appealing to youth and now they have their own services where they can lift up their hands and dance. We are known for our order but a lively service was missing. Now we are better off. Many young people are coming back to the Anglican Church. But we still have services using the 1662 Prayer Book for people who like tradition. We are out of the box but under authority.

VOL: You are four million strong, according to Canon Rosemary Mbogo. Are you still growing or have you evened off? What are your goals for church growth in Kenya?

NZIMBI: We are growing as a church, the livelier services will cause churches to grow faster, and look at church structures which support mission work. Our target is on the youth and Sunday school so that the right kind of teaching is there. We have leaders of today for tomorrow with clear budgets for these departments. We have 5,000 clergy in 30 dioceses with some 8,000 evangelists.

VOL: You have 16 former ECUSA parishes under your care, what are you doing to nurture those relationships?

NZIMBI: We are putting these parishes under specific dioceses. We want to have a desk in the provincial office which will deal with international affairs, that is our goal.

VOL: Some eight Episcopal dioceses are seeking alternative primatial oversight from the archbishop of Canterbury, would you be prepared to be a primate that would offer yourself to Dr. Williams as a haven of ecclesiastical refuge for these American dioceses?

NZIMBI: There is no reason why we should not do that. We want to snatch these faithful Christians from the fire and any person who is looking for help from us, because he is having problems and wants to be faithful to the Word of God. We are ready to give that diocese pastoral oversight.

VOL: Do you see an inevitable split in the Anglican Communion as the TEC seems bent on continuing its rebellious slide away from biblical faith and towards post-modernism? What about the possibility of a Tenth Province?

NZIMBI: For the gospel to be still heard they need to be recognized by the Archbishop of Canterbury and also other provinces. Giving them a province will care for the needs of the faithful. 815 has taken a different route.

VOL: If push comes to shove and the Archbishop does not discipline the revisionists or engage orthodox Episcopalians in TEC with hope for a place of refuge from the onslaught of pansexuality, could there be two communions in the foreseeable future?

NZIMBI: Many of the churches in Africa believe that what the revisionists are saying we cannot agree with. We have said no to financial partnerships and direct financial aid from the Episcopal Church. I want to caution the leadership about the right use of power and right use of money. The key thing in that the leadership should repent and having a contrite heart which God shall not despise.

VOL: I must ask you bishop about corruption in the African Church. It has come to my attention that there is considerable corruption among some African bishops and clergy where money is concerned coming from the United States?

NZIMBI: There is corruption at two levels; national corruption which involves a lot of money and also church corruption. National corruption in every big and it is coming from the west. European and American show African politicians where to hide the money. There is involvement in banks, so we are calling upon the western leaders to help to retrieve money back from theses banks to the nations of Africa.

On church corruption. This is a fair question. There is church corruption when the leadership misappropriates the funds which have been brought for a specific designation, and it used for something else. I am appealing to African leadership to direct funds to the right project. Bishops should not be bishops of the church to lead the church if they are corrupt. They should be brought up before a tribunal and tried. That is what we would do in Kenya.

VOL: What do you see as the central issue facing your church?

NZIMBI: Our church must be proactive and not simply reactive. We have six committees to deal with different issues that include doctors, professors and a wide range of other persons. There are six vital issues: Health and HIV; governance and policies and inter govt. relations; education and theology; food, hunger and famine needs of the people and other areas of concern in this nation. We are providing a voice through lectures which are then repeated in 29 dioceses by different people around the country.

VOL: Thank you for your time Your Grace.

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