By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
2/6/2008

VIRTUEONLINE: Bishop, the Anglican Communion is going through a heart-breaking period in its history with many now believing it is heading towards schism. Do you believe that?

RODGERS: I think it will likely lead in the end to a formal split. Everything hinges on the upcoming Lambeth 2008. If there is no progress in an orthodox direction, I cannot see how it can hold together. I think a major division of the Anglican Communion is likely. The Global South has said they have had enough and will, I believe, go their own way and leave the Western Church to the liberals and Archbishop Williams.

VIRTUEONLINE: You're not hopeful then?

RODGERS: No, I'm not. We have assumed we are part of a global Anglicanism that is true and good and turned a blind eye to its actual condition. We have been idolatrous about the Anglican Communion. The truth is that for us to be faithful Anglicans, we can no longer be simply identified with the present Anglican Communion. It must be reformed or divided.

VIRTUEONLINE: You produced a very damaging document on what you saw as Rowan Williams' stealth endorsement of the gay agenda revealed in an article titled S.P.R.E.A.D, the Archbishop of Canterbury's 30-year theological flirtation with homosexuality (http://tinyurl.com/2knr5p). Have you had any response to it from Lambeth Palace?

RODGERS: None directly to me. I have been told that it has been read by some in the Global South and has helped them be more critical of the Archbishop's leadership.

VIRTUEONLINE: Would you have gone to Lambeth, had you been invited?

RODGERS: No. I will go to GAFCON with that emerging agenda. I would not go to Lambeth, as it is presently constituted. We have to take the necessary steps to face the growing disintegration of the Communion in its present form. GAFCON is an expression itself, a wonderful grouping of bishops who see the Scriptures as God's word written, of the necessary approach to dealing with the Communion.

VIRTUEONLINE: Can you envision the Anglican Communion continuing indefinitely with Rowan Williams at the helm?

RODGERS: Can we envision it continuing with him at the helm? When Chuck [Murphy] and I were consecrated, we had an exchange with Archbishop George Carey. We said, God is realigning his people around the truth of His word. We do have, deep in our DNA unity, the need for a global belonging. I cannot think we will give up on an Anglican Communion in some form. It might be rotated at the center of gravity... located in Jerusalem. I have advocated a center in Jerusalem for years.

VIRTUEONLINE: It seems to this writer that the Anglican Communion lacks any kind of authority to discipline a theologically wayward province. What is your take?

RODGERS: There is not sufficient basis to discipline an errant province, neither a sufficient statement of binding doctrine nor a designated body of persons to exercise discipline.. However, I would expect that there will be a correction about that along with an emerging true communion, not just a federation of churches. We need to go back to the early Church Councils for conciliar decisions that bind the churches. Right now the Anglican Communion is more like a family picnic. If we haven't addressed that need for a modest but real magisterium, we will be independent entities in loose federation and we will be setting ourselves up to repeat the past. We need to realize that the Early Church had councils and not picnics.

VIRTUEONLINE: Is it possible theologically to hold a high view of Scripture and the Church affirming homosexuality?

RODGERS: Whatever we understand diversity to mean as Anglicans, the authority of Scripture means we cannot embrace the homosexual agenda. A biblical theology, at the heart of which lies the gospel, which produces changed lives, precludes any idea that we can change the historic teaching of the church about sexual behavior.

VIRTUEONLINE: Despite the bad news of declining mainline denominations, many believe we are on the cusp of an explosion of evangelicalism. Do you believe that?

RODGERS: I believe we are on the cusp of an Anglican Evangelical awakening. Many people are looking for roots, not the latest thing, nor the mega church thing. People are looking for that which has stood the test of time. Liturgy is one expression of that historic rootage. Jesus Himself worshipped liturgically and was worshiped in liturgy in the early history of the church. We have several pieces of evidence affirming this concern for historical roots. The commentary series by Thomas Oden and Chris Hall is one example. In our own situation, there is the example of a group of students at Northwestern University in Chicago meeting for morning and evening prayer.

Evangelicals attracted to Anglicanism love expository preaching. That, too, is part of the emerging picture. The Charismatic gifts are also present as part of the attraction, though not the chief element. There is definitely an openness to the manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

You can see all of these things as being present in discernibly Anglican worship. People are being attracted and are coming and experiencing this blended worship. That is taking place around the country.

VIRTUEONLINE: You have cast your lot with the Anglican Mission in the Americas. Has this been a good move for you?

RODGERS: Yes. The Anglican Mission in the Americas (AMIA) has been able to plant a new church every three weeks and it is using this blended worship of the ancient and the modern. We (AMiA) cannot keep up with the possibilities of church planting. We don't have people or money to keep up. I understand that we are falling behind our opportunities even though, in some cases, we are planting three congregations at the same time. The signs are good for a break through in numbers in the days ahead.

In the midst of this kind of explosion and rapid growth, certain questions emerge. We must ask when does a congregation, however evangelicaL, cease to be Anglican? What are the essentials of being an Anglican congregation?

VIRTUEONLINE: How important is the Book of Common Prayer and which one should we use?

RODGERS: It is certainly an issue. We do want a Prayer Book that creates a common language, familiarity and coherence for the new province that I see emerging. We need Cranmer's vision of common prayer. He sought to disciple the nation through a common liturgy and its vocabulary and theology. Shouldn't we do the same?.

VIRTUEONLINE: Is diversity important?

RODGERS: We lose some coherence when we have a diversity of liturgies, but we might attract more people. The tension arises between our desire for a common worship and mission, reaching as many of the lost as possible.

VIRTUEONLINE: What's wrong with our culture and can Anglicanism make a serious inroad in it?

RODGERS: We live in an anti-supernatural culture that suppresses our expectation of God's active presence in our lives. We need to be much more expectant of His present action in our midst. This applies, for example, to the healing ministry and to our taking time to witness by testimonies to what God is doing. An effective Anglicanism will embrace the three streams: evangelical, catholic and pentecostal.

VIRTUEONLINE: With respect to the Episcopal Church, what do you think is going to happen?

RODGERS: My sense is that much depends on how seriously Rowan Williams meant what he wrote in his Advent letter, where he states that you could not come to Lambeth unless you were Windsor Report compliant. From what I have read and heard, TEC is allergic to any kind of covenant that has authority over its autonomous life. I do not see how we can have a worldwide communion that has no magisterium. This is evident in the fact that we can't discipline TEC. The instruments of Unity are all only advisory. We need a clearly accepted basic theology. We have these in the classical Anglican formularies. We also need a body, a designated group, that is able to enforce discipline upon those dioceses or provinces that depart from the doctrine and moral teaching of the church.

There was a movement in Lambeth 1998 in the direction of a magisterium that gave extended authority in the Primates. The first daft of Angl;ican Communion Covenant suggested that the Primates might have that authority, but when the draft came to a statement of the Anglican theology, that was unique to us, it failed. The best it could say was that at the time of the Reformation in the past we were led by the Holy Spirit, to attest the truth of the Gospel thought the 39 Articles and the 1662 Book of Common Prayer and its Ordinal, but it said nothing about what we now affirm theologically as Anglicans. We are back to having an "Historic Section" as found in the 1979 Book of Common Prayer. We must do better than that or we will end up back where we are now in a few years..

VIRTUEONLINE: Should Evangelicals and Anglo-Catholics go to Lambeth?

RODGERS: I don't have much hope in the Windsor process, particularly if Godly bishops don't go. And they say that they won't go because all of their bishops are not invited and because TEC is invited even though it has not complied with the Primates requests. Frankly, I wouldn't have much hope, even if everybody went. Perhaps I am too skeptical after all of the evasion we have seen since Lambeth 1998.

If Lambeth 2008 produces a Covenant with no teeth, then it is, most likely the last gasp, and a new "Anglican Communion" committed to Anglican theology will arise.

In my opinion, a new Covenant must affirm the Bible as the Word of God written, the Catholic Creeds, the 1662 Prayer Book of Common Prayer and its Ordinal and the 39 Articles of Religion. If we don't read the Bible this way, with this central content or theology, then we are not reading it as historic Anglicans. Such a Covenant would allow provinces to self-select. If one cannot bring ones self in line, then one must leave. The present draft covenant is deficient and must be strengthened.

VIRTUEONLINE: For 40 years, the Episcopal Church has forced change on the church largely in the area of pansexual behavior. Can that be turned around now?

RODGERS: No, I do not believe it can be turned, now. The culture is moving in a certain direction with powerful and strong forces. The church has been evangelized by the culture, and the liberals and revisionists won't let it be turned around. They have the votes and they have marginalized the orthodox.

Our task now is to confront the culture with the gospel. We need the space to carry out our task. It is not impatience when we seek the space and right to deal seriously with the present situation. What if Paul had backed down in his confrontation with Peter in Galatians 2? Where would we be now? No, we can't wait.

VIRTUEONLINE: Do you see any danger that we might be seeing a repeat of 1977 when four priests emerged following the St. Louis Convention, became bishops. Now there are some 58 Anglo-Catholic bishops and jurisdictions in the U.S. They have not had a serious impact on TEC. Is there a danger of repeating this with 20 evangelical bishops in five (overseas) jurisdictions?

RODGERS: Yes, the danger is there. But there is also present a passion to be one and to live a common life in Christ. I see this unity in Christ beginning to find expression in the Common Cause Partnership. There is the danger of being apart, but we dare not let that happen. We are all committed to this federation(CCP) with its stated purpose to form a province, an entity, a church to be recognized by and to live in fellowship with the faithful portion of the Anglican Communion. I trust this will come about in two years. It is essential that orthodox Anglicans take counsel together. A great deal is at stake. We need to think, live and act together in the life and mission of the church as orthodox Anglicans.

VIRTUEONLINE: Thank you Dr. Rodgers.

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